I recently posted about the idea that former US president Donald Trump is being persecuted, and why I believe that idea is preposterous. I wrote that post because Citizen Tom decided to dissect a comment I’d made elsewhere. Tom duly responded to that post, but it’s the comments on Tom’s post that I am more interested in.
I have clashed with Silence of Mind more than once, and to my shame, I dare say he brings out the worst in me. His vindictive, crass and dishonest attitude makes a complete mockery of his claims to be a Christian, let alone a good one. Take a look at his comment below:
One need only read the first sentence of any Berwick piece to realize it is based on logical fallacies, outright lies, or “facts” that are not facts. Even the title, “The Poor, Persecuted Trump,” is nothing but a sneering vomit of hatred.
Satan is the father of hatred. Ben Berwick is Satan’s bastard hate child. Either that, or he is a troll who gets his jollies raising Cain. Either way Berwick is evil.
SOM’s entry is nothing more than a demonstration of how nasty he is.
Tom also made a comment, and it got me thinking.
Relative to yourself, I would suppose that Ben leans towards totalitarianism and the annihilation of individualism. Nevertheless, you are judging a whole bunch of people to be the exact same. Makes judging others and discarding them easier, don’t you think?
I find it odd that Tom would think I favour totalitarianism. It’s my view that the hard right is far more in favour of erasing individual rights than the left is. You need only look at how the conservative, religious right has historically sought to erase the rights of the LGBT community, denied women bodily autonomy, and denied the USA’s history of racial conflict. The conservative right is closely married to the idea that unrestricted capitalism (something that chains people pretty damn well). It seems the marginalisation of minorities, women and the LGBT community is the opposite of individualism. The economic oppression of society-at-large to favour the wealthy and keep everyone else plugging along in a samey, grey monotony is precisely what happens when you let profiteering outweigh everything else.
My two cents.
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Invoking the fairy tale of Satan is the tell. They have no actual argument, just maligning pejoratives. This is what children do.
SOM is certainly doing everything he can to prove himself a childish troll.
Their cult leader finally being held accountable, brings out the intellectual immaturity.
You realise I hope that SoM is a Catholic, yes?
So as far as every Protestant is concerned he is not a proper Christian.
♂️
I think he gets all uppity when his nurse is late with his meds.
I wouldn’t take him seriously.
Oh at this stage I don’t take him seriously. I consider him to be a bad Christian. I have known several good Christians, and whilst I don’t share their beliefs, I am lucky to have known them. They run rings around SOM on the goodness stakes.
Did you watch the game?
I caught the highlights. Nunez was our hero tonight!
Gee, I wonder what sort of ‘Catholic’?
Speaking as a European Catholic Socialist (yes the dreaded ‘S’ word), who is guilty of Relativism (which will makes popes kinda cross with me).
And what’s this about Catholic Bishops supporting Trump?
Sorry I’m wandering. Must be late for my meds too
Aside from favouring ‘totalitarianism’. Probably ‘worse’ you are displaying ‘socialism’. This in the mindset of the adherents of the American Right seems to involve having a predisposition to equality and dignity for all irrespective of race, creed and religion.
From a European perspective the American Right’s idea of The Left is broadly laughable were it not so potentially dangerous. There are no doubt ‘Leftists’ of our euro-stripes in the USA but they would be very marginalised and centrally not in mainstream politics.
Of course it is difficult to discuss these matters with most folk on the US Right; some extreme cases you may as well be talking to Taliban about Women’s Rights.
Keep up your good work.
Thank you! You are right of course. The US hard right is so far to the right that any suggestion of even treatment must be treated as the scary bogeyman of socialism.
Speaking as a UK socialist I have to admit to the occasional wry smile at these comments they make… ‘Socialism’. Just allow me a few moments to make observations born out by nearly 60 years of being one.
1. It is not simple ‘Socialism’. Even the simplified Wikipedia is 37 pages long with another 45 pages of notes, further readings etc (And is headed with one of those ‘Multiple issues’ warnings).
2. Far being a monolithic machine lacking freedom of thought:
(A). If there is one person a socialist hates more than a conservative (right-winger) or liberal (moderate- and probably a right-winger) is another socialist who does not agree with them. This person is a traitor to the cause, and betrayer of the people in the struggle.
(B) If an American were to visit the UK, and ask five dedicated socialist to explain Socialism. The American would experience the following: (i) Intervene to break up a potential fist fight between two, who would then ‘take it outside’
(ii) Replace the chairs scattered by one other storming out calling the others ‘fools’, ‘betrayers’ ‘liberals (terrible insult) etc’
(iii) Having got into a conversation with the remaining two conclude there have been five different explanations given.
The American is then advised to go back to their hotel room, take pain killers for the severe headache and lie down in a darkened room (earphones and very soft relaxing music an optional extra).
The American might also experience a certain confusion because amongst some of the discourse of the sort verging on the hyperbole and hysterical, they could have sworn they heard the same basic sentiments of political narrow-mindedness intolerance and conspiracy fervour as they heard voice by some MAGA folk (though without the guns and religion).
Socialism…..Oh dear. You are so correct The American Right really don’t know much about the subject.
Haha, great comment, I love it!
Would you consider Democrats to be even remotely socialist in their policies (for that matter, what do you make of the Labour Party)?
Ooooh questions with long answers (sorry about that)
Democrats remotely socialist? Now there’s a good question.
Look back first to my early years being interested in politics. (Mid-1960s). The thing anyone with perspective learnt was that American and British political parties were quite separate constructs.
From the British viewpoint it was a mistake to compare Republicans with Conservatives and Democrats with Labour. Analysis revealed both parties with coalitions of American views, beliefs and opinions overlaid with state politics. True you might say Republicans favoured Business and less government control while Democrats went for more government control to favour equality but that could go out the proverbial window if the wind changed.
Of course over the past twenty years with the arrival of Newt Grinchism things have changed and the wagons have started to circle.
That said it was George W Bush (Republican Neo-Con) who said ‘No Child Left Behind’ (whether that worked is another matter). And it was Barack Obama (one of ‘those people’ who lots of white folk tried to prove was a Muslim not born in the USA) who gave to the executive order to take out Osama Bin Laden (even though some of his military chiefs. weren’t happy about it)
Thus taking all things into account if you were to ask me the Democrats are overall liberals. Since they seem to weave shy of a National Health Service, a Federally run Prison and Correction Service, stronger control if not ownership of the Utilities (gas, water, electric), a Federally maintained network of roads, and still allow all those guns. No…no….no. Socialist they are not. They are well-meaning liberals (and that is with a little ‘l’); that’s my opinion. It is an article of faith amongst some UK socialists that they are nearly as bad as the Republicans.
(Which is stupid. And anyway Socialism might work in some small towns in the US, but as a national system? In the USA many cultures?…Gimme a break. You’re all too ornery and used to be separate folks in different states and generally suspicious of government at all levels…Socialism in the USA?..Oooh boy!)
Which leads onto your next question:
What do I make of the Labour Party?
I best set out my own stall first. Hard Left. State ownership of Utilities, transport systems (ok private haulage companies is necessary), education, NHS, prison and correction services, and better funded law enforcement. Folks private lives are their own business, but try and disrupt society and…you’re in big trouble. Intolerance on ground of racism orientation etc and you are in bigger trouble. I also hold to Party Discipline, ie the primary duty is to convince voters you are a safe bet, no fringe groups allowed (I’ll explain)
Basically The UK Labour Party is a dysfunctional family whose main occupation as I said is to denounce other sections.
Going from one side to the other:
1. Those folk who would fit in the Democrat Party, and should be members of the UK Liberal Party (Or Green Party) but reckon neither have a hope of getting into government.
2. Centralists, who prefer state control on most things, at least in an oversight way. Look for equality and full employment (whatever definition is used)
3. Left of Centre who desire state control, and the expelling of militant groups out of Labour for spoiling the chances of winning elections.
4. Self proclaimed militants, who think that if they shout long and loud enough, going around in groups and being vile to those who do not agree with them, they will convince the generally conservative (with a small ‘c.) to vote for them. They are a gift to the Conservative and Liberal Parties.
5. Folk who are actually communists but lie low, waiting for Russia to turn back to the USSR and the good old days.
6. Shadowy disaffected folk of Hard Left views but also subscribe to Realpolitik, and want to Conservatives out…whatever (and those in group 4). These folk work on the basis that a quarter of a loaf is better than none. They might not like Kier Stammer at all, but reckon he can do a better job of throwing out the Conservatives than Corbyn and Co (class enemies guilty of Vanity and proto-Cult of the Personality- sorry I had to get a bit of old soviet-speak in there).
Thus currently Stammer for all the things I don’t like about his policies will do, because he is a better bet than the lot in government at present.
This is a ‘Business As Usual’ review of The UK Labour Party. It’s been like this as long as I can remember (born 1951)
Although all groups would agree on one fundamental outlook.
Being rude about Trump.
This has been a ‘short’ summary.
Thank you for you time
Thank you for a detailed and informative answer!
Don’t forget to lie down in a darkened room, after reading
It appears WP didn’t send my last reply (it’s doing that a lot recently).
Anyway. My pleasure. I left the Scots and Welsh nationalist out because that’s a whole post in itself….and in Northern Ireland they do things very differently, and only Northern Irish can give you a full explanation.