The Thinking ‘Kat: Universal Reality
In another reality, I would be staring down the barrel of huge medical debt right now. Indeed, if I lived in the USA, this would be my reality.
Recently, my daughter has faced a barrage of blood tests, MRIs and ultrasound scans, all which culminated in thyroid surgery, and an overnight stay in hospital. The cost of all of that to my wife and I? Nothing. We have not paid one single penny toward the medical procedures. This is because here in the UK, we have the National Health Service. The NHS provides free at point-of-use care to millions of people, across a variety of illnesses and injuries, and this in turn provides peace of mind. I do ‘pay’ for the NHS in the same way that I pay for education, policing and the military; it’s done via my taxes, and having had roughly £3,000 deducted from my pay in the form of taxation last year, and with 40% of that going to the NHS, I contributed £1,200 to the NHS.
So, for the precise and the pedantic among us, I paid £1,200 for my daughter’s medical procedures.
In the USA, an ultrasound costs anywhere from $100 to $800, depending on the body part, and the technology being used (with insurance). The average cost of an MRI scan is $1,325. Blood tests vary wildly, starting at $29 but rising to nearly $400, depending on the requirements of the test. With insurance, thyroid surgery ranges from $1,500 to $5,000. An overnight stay in hospital can set you back $100, but could be as much as $500, again if you happen to have insurance.
So, let’s add that together. The low-end cost for my daughter’s exams and treatment in the USA would come to $3,054, or £2,291. The high-end? $8,025, or £6,020.
Now, keep in mind that these costs assume one blood test, one MRI and one ultrasound, and my daughter had more than one of each of these procedures. So, if I were living in the USA, I’d be paying out nearly double for one set of procedures, than I would pay for an unlimited number of these procedures here in the UK.
As surreal as it may seem, there are plenty of conservatives in the USA who would prefer to fight tooth-and-nail to preserve their current system, and worryingly, there are some in the UK who would gleefully replace the NHS for a US-style insurance system. There are quite a few commentators on the right-side of the political aisle who are against the NHS, but the problem doesn’t rest with how it’s funded. When the system works, it works extremely well (my daughter was fast-tracked through the process). It spares people from falling into crippling medical debt.
Quite why anyone would be opposed to this is baffling, but a lot of the arguments – at least from the US side of the Atlantic – are rooted in fear of government, and questions around the role of government. A lot of this misses the point. The NHS is not government. It is a healthcare service. Having it funded by government is not the same as having it run by politicians. Utilising taxes to provide a service that helps people is surely one of the fundamentals of government? The alternative – which is unique to the USA, especially among developed nations – is letting people be fleeced for profit, and forcing terrible choices to be made.
To conservatives, the alternative is somehow better because ‘freedom’. The freedom to do what, exactly?
There’s no way that we want a US-style system here in the UK. It would have left me financially crippled. Let’s keep to a system that works, and is proven to work the world over.
You don’t know what you are talking about. In America, we have insurance. If somebody doesn’t have insurance, they will have to ask for charity. The elderly have Medicare, and children have Medicaid. And the government wastes huge sums on fraud, waste, and abuse. Generally speaking, people get the care they need, and most people are happy with it. The people who have the most trouble illegal immigrants who don’t belong here, and even they get help.
Do people go bankrupt because of medical bills? Yeah! And going bankrupt is a nuisance. it is why people buy insurance.
Medical care is a relatively new problem, and people are still trying to figure out how to make the problems of supply and demand work for sick people. And you know what? Government is not the solution. Government is force. Government delivered medical care is just a way of forcing people into a monopoly.
Unfortunately for you Tom, I do know what I’m talking about. I’ve done my research. I did the maths. What would cost thousands of dollars with insurance if I were American cost me nothing at point of use. Not a penny. That is the case for millions of people across many countries, where delivery of healthcare is a right not governed by ridiculous concerns over ‘monopolies’. When you take healthcare and turn it into a question of profit, it creates the sort of horrible imbalances seen in the USA, yet not seen in virtually every other developed nation.
You are taking one personal experience and generalizing it to the whole world. Such generalization is fraught with problems.
Is your price even right? This website, https://www.newchoicehealth.com/mri/cost, says the target fair price for the average MRI is $750. But what exactly is the average MRI? That lumps together all kinds of things.
When we compare the UK and the USA, we are comparing apples to oranges. Healthcare in the UK is a monopoly with little incentive for innovation. The USA has a free, innovative market and lawsuit crazy lawyers. The main problem in the USA is that doctors have an incentive to recommend unnecessary procedures in order to cover their butts. Too many Americans also eat too much processed food and don’t exercise enough. Fat people with bad diets are too common.
Private enterprise is not the problem. The USA has wealthy people, demanding better care, and they are willing and able to pay for it. People with less money cannot do that. but they get better care in the long run when the cost of newer and better procedures drops. What percentage of the procedures and drugs used in the UK are of USA origin?
Note also that insurance companies negotiate prices. That’s one of the reasons for getting insurance, to reduce the bill before we get injured or sick. Therefore, the people with decent insurance don’t pay as much as they would if they bought healthcare on their own.
Bottomline. Americans pay more for health care because they want better health care. It is not the government’s job to tell us what to buy. It is the government’s job to make sure that nobody is being cheated. When the government is running the health care system, that government is in the position of regulating itself. That is a blatant conflict of interest that will inevitably create more and more problems as the decades pass.
Consider Tom, that given your prior sneering at statistical-based conclusions, I thought have thought personal experience would resonate with you more.
My prices are based on research, you may mention what the fair price should be for an MRI; the average cost is $1,325, based on this information. Yes, that price may vary, but do you know the cost of an MRI, for any reason, to a Briton in Britain? Nothing. Zero. Zilch.
You frame innovation but neglect to consider quality of outcomes. Healthcare should be about helping people to overcome disease, injuries and conditions. If a healthcare service cannot do that without financially crippling people, it’s something of a failure. If good healthcare is only accessible to those with money, it is a bad system overall. Roughly half a million Americans go bankrupt due to medical issues, every year. This has been true since at least 1999. Medical debt is the primary reason for bankruptcy in the USA.
In effect, what you advocate for is a two-tier trickle-down system, where eventually services get better for those unlucky enough not to have been born into wealth. Does it matter how innovative the system is, if it’s out of reach for the average American? Does it matter what the UK imports, drug and medicine-wise, if I don’t have to pay for it at point of use, and you have to pay through the nose? As to your point about obesity and processed foods, do you think these issues don’t exist in the UK?
Meanwhile, here in the UK, it’s not even a monopoly. People have the choice to go private, if they have the means and wish to do so. I’ve gone private for procedures before. It’s an option for anyone, but for those who are unable or unwilling to pay for it, the NHS is always there.
Shall we expand this comparison to emcompass other countries? Why not…
Do you know what country is rated extremely highly for the quality of its healthcare services? South Korea. South Korea has adopted a universal single-payer system with strict controls to prevent the sort of damaging expenses seen regularly in the US system. Japan has done something similar. Singapore rates highly, so too does Sweden, Australia and Ireland. How many people suffer medical bankruptcies in these countries? The answer is considerably fewer than in the USA, and the quality of outcomes is every bit as good, if not better, regardless of economic background or income.
In short, defending a broken system in the hope that somehow the failure of trickle-down economics will magically succeed, doesn’t make a lot of sense. I’ll stick to the NHS.
@Tom
“And the government wastes huge sums on fraud, waste, and abuse… ”
As personified by the current administration, Trump the Giant Felonious Nob you have as President and the illegal war he started with a tab currently running at around at around $29 billion and could rise to hundreds of billions.
And you voted for him.
Don’t you feel like a donkey’s arse! 🤦
There certainly is a considerable irony in complaining of government waste, considering the consistent failures of the Trump administration.
Indeed. Dear Old Tom is all for griping about goverment interference on just about every level, yet he, along with millions, put their X next to what many consider the most corrupt President and his inept, vile GOP administration in US history.
Now, one could accept (forgive?) such a blunder once…. many people across the world have been sucker punched by smooth talking politicians, but as the saying goes….
Fool me once etc etc
What boggles the mind is the fact Trump was already recognised as a monumental Arsewipe the first time around and yet the same ignorant Evangelical Nutjobs went and voted him in Again.
So what does this say about people like Tom and InsanityBytes who prefer a lying corrupt, mysogisist suspected pedophile above… well just about anyone who embraces democracy? In truth, it says an awful lot, and sadly nothing good.
If it wasn’t for the fact Trump is a reckless twat putting so much of the world at risk/on edge, I would say, serves the Yanks right.
To Tom and his irresponsible ilk, I would quote the phrase :May you live in interesting times.
@Tom
“Government is force. Government delivered medical care is just a way of forcing people into a monopoly.”
Bollocks!
It is YOU who has no idea what they are taking about. In fact you are talking out your backside!
In the UK Private Medical Care is widely available.
That is choice.
But the NHS, for all the flak it gets, is there for one and all, and as Ben points out, at no charge at point of delivery.